中部第 35 经（Sujato 英译）第 1 阅读页 · The Shorter Discourse With Saccaka · 1/2

Middle Discourses 35Middle Discourses 35The Shorter Discourse With SaccakaThe Shorter Discourse With Saccaka

So I have heard.So I have heard.At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.Now at that time Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, was staying in Vesālī. He was a controversialist who pretended to be astute and was deemed holy by many people.Now at that time Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, was staying in Vesālī. He was a controversialist who pretended to be astute and was deemed holy by many people.

He was telling a crowd in Vesālī,He was telling a crowd in Vesālī,“I don’t see any ascetic or brahmin who would not shake and rock and tremble, sweating from the armpits, were I to take them on in debate—not a leader of an order or a community, or the tutor of a community, and not even one who claims to be a perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha.“I don’t see any ascetic or brahmin who would not shake and rock and tremble, sweating from the armpits, were I to take them on in debate—not a leader of an order or a community, or the tutor of a community, and not even one who claims to be a perfected one, a fully awakened Buddha.Even an insentient post would shake and rock and tremble were I to take it on in debate.Even an insentient post would shake and rock and tremble were I to take it on in debate.

How much more then a human being!”How much more then a human being!”Then Venerable Assaji robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Vesālī for alms.Then Venerable Assaji robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Vesālī for alms.As Saccaka was going for a walk he saw Assaji coming off in the distance.As Saccaka was going for a walk he saw Assaji coming off in the distance.

He approached him and exchanged greetings with him.He approached him and exchanged greetings with him.When the greetings and polite conversation were over, Saccaka stood to one side and said to Assaji,When the greetings and polite conversation were over, Saccaka stood to one side and said to Assaji,“Worthy Assaji, how does the ascetic Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?”“Worthy Assaji, how does the ascetic Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?”

“Aggivessana, this is how the Buddha guides his disciples, and his instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics:“Aggivessana, this is how the Buddha guides his disciples, and his instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics:‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent.‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent.Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are not-self.Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are not-self.

All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’This is how the Buddha guides his disciples, and how instruction to his disciples generally proceeds.”This is how the Buddha guides his disciples, and how instruction to his disciples generally proceeds.”“It’s sad to hear, worthy Assaji, that the ascetic Gotama has such a doctrine.“It’s sad to hear, worthy Assaji, that the ascetic Gotama has such a doctrine.

Hopefully, some time or other I’ll get to meet the worthy Gotama, and we can have a discussion. And hopefully I can dissuade him from this harmful misconception.”Hopefully, some time or other I’ll get to meet the worthy Gotama, and we can have a discussion. And hopefully I can dissuade him from this harmful misconception.”Now at that time around five hundred Licchavis were sitting together at the town hall on some business.Now at that time around five hundred Licchavis were sitting together at the town hall on some business.Then Saccaka went up to them and said,Then Saccaka went up to them and said,

“Come forth, good Licchavīs, come forth! Today I am going to have a discussion with the ascetic Gotama.“Come forth, good Licchavīs, come forth! Today I am going to have a discussion with the ascetic Gotama.If he stands by the position stated to me by one of his well-known disciples—a mendicant named Assaji—I’ll take him on in debate and drag him to and fro and round about, like a strong man would grab a fleecy sheep and drag it to and fro and round about!If he stands by the position stated to me by one of his well-known disciples—a mendicant named Assaji—I’ll take him on in debate and drag him to and fro and round about, like a strong man would grab a fleecy sheep and drag it to and fro and round about!Taking him on in debate, I’ll drag him to and fro and round about, like a strong brewer’s worker would toss a large brewer’s sieve into a deep lake, grab it by the corners, and drag it to and fro and round about!Taking him on in debate, I’ll drag him to and fro and round about, like a strong brewer’s worker would toss a large brewer’s sieve into a deep lake, grab it by the corners, and drag it to and fro and round about!

Taking him on in debate, I’ll shake him down and about, and give him a beating, like a strong brewer’s mixer would grab a strainer by the corners and shake it down and about, and give it a beating!Taking him on in debate, I’ll shake him down and about, and give him a beating, like a strong brewer’s mixer would grab a strainer by the corners and shake it down and about, and give it a beating!I’ll play a game of hemp-washing with the ascetic Gotama, like a sixty-year-old elephant would plunge into a deep lotus pond and play a game of hemp-washing!I’ll play a game of hemp-washing with the ascetic Gotama, like a sixty-year-old elephant would plunge into a deep lotus pond and play a game of hemp-washing!Come forth, good Licchavīs, come forth! Today I am going to have a discussion with the ascetic Gotama.”Come forth, good Licchavīs, come forth! Today I am going to have a discussion with the ascetic Gotama.”

At that, some of the Licchavis said,At that, some of the Licchavis said,“How can the ascetic Gotama refute Saccaka’s doctrine, when it is Saccaka who will refute Gotama’s doctrine?”“How can the ascetic Gotama refute Saccaka’s doctrine, when it is Saccaka who will refute Gotama’s doctrine?”But some of the Licchavis said,But some of the Licchavis said,

“Who is Saccaka to refute the Buddha’s doctrine, when it is the Buddha who will refute Saccaka’s doctrine?”“Who is Saccaka to refute the Buddha’s doctrine, when it is the Buddha who will refute Saccaka’s doctrine?”Then Saccaka, escorted by the five hundred Licchavis, went to the hall with the peaked roof in the Great Wood.Then Saccaka, escorted by the five hundred Licchavis, went to the hall with the peaked roof in the Great Wood.At that time several mendicants were walking mindfully in the open air.At that time several mendicants were walking mindfully in the open air.

Then Saccaka went up to them and said,Then Saccaka went up to them and said,“Good fellows, where is the worthy Gotama at present?“Good fellows, where is the worthy Gotama at present?For we want to see him.”For we want to see him.”

“Aggivessana, the Buddha has plunged deep into the Great Wood and is sitting at the root of a tree for the day’s meditation.”“Aggivessana, the Buddha has plunged deep into the Great Wood and is sitting at the root of a tree for the day’s meditation.”Then Saccaka, together with a large group of Licchavis, went to the Buddha in the Great Wood, and exchanged greetings with him.Then Saccaka, together with a large group of Licchavis, went to the Buddha in the Great Wood, and exchanged greetings with him.When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side.When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side.

Before sitting down to one side, some of the Licchavīs bowed, some exchanged greetings and polite conversation, some held up their cupped palms toward the Buddha, some announced their name and clan, while some kept silent.Before sitting down to one side, some of the Licchavīs bowed, some exchanged greetings and polite conversation, some held up their cupped palms toward the Buddha, some announced their name and clan, while some kept silent.Then Saccaka said to the Buddha,Then Saccaka said to the Buddha,“I’d like to ask the worthy Gotama about a certain point, if you’d take the time to answer.”“I’d like to ask the worthy Gotama about a certain point, if you’d take the time to answer.”

“Ask what you wish, Aggivessana.”“Ask what you wish, Aggivessana.”“How does the worthy Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?”“How does the worthy Gotama guide his disciples? And on what topics does instruction to his disciples generally proceed?”“This is how I guide my disciples, and my instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics:“This is how I guide my disciples, and my instructions to disciples generally proceed on these topics:

‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent.‘Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are impermanent.Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are not-self.Form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness are not-self.All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’All conditions are impermanent. All things are not-self.’

This is how I guide my disciples, and how instruction to my disciples generally proceeds.”This is how I guide my disciples, and how instruction to my disciples generally proceeds.”“A simile strikes me, worthy Gotama.”“A simile strikes me, worthy Gotama.”“Then speak as you feel inspired,” said the Buddha.“Then speak as you feel inspired,” said the Buddha.

“All the plants and seeds that achieve growth, increase, and maturity do so depending on the earth and grounded on the earth.“All the plants and seeds that achieve growth, increase, and maturity do so depending on the earth and grounded on the earth.All the hard work that gets done depends on the earth and is grounded on the earth.All the hard work that gets done depends on the earth and is grounded on the earth.In the same way, an individual person’s self is form. Established on form they brim with merit and wickedness. An individual person’s self is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness. Established on consciousness they brim with merit and wickedness.”In the same way, an individual person’s self is form. Established on form they brim with merit and wickedness. An individual person’s self is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness. Established on consciousness they brim with merit and wickedness.”

“Aggivessana, are you not saying this:“Aggivessana, are you not saying this:‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’?”‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’?”“Indeed, worthy Gotama, that is what I am saying.“Indeed, worthy Gotama, that is what I am saying.

And this big crowd agrees with me!”And this big crowd agrees with me!”“What has this big crowd to do with you?“What has this big crowd to do with you?Please just unpack your own statement.”Please just unpack your own statement.”

“Then, worthy Gotama, what I am saying is this:“Then, worthy Gotama, what I am saying is this:‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’.”‘Form is my self, feeling is my self, perception is my self, choices are my self, consciousness is my self’.”“Well then, Aggivessana, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.“Well then, Aggivessana, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like.

What do you think, Aggivessana?What do you think, Aggivessana?Consider an anointed aristocratic king such as Pasenadi of Kosala or Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of the princess of Videha.Consider an anointed aristocratic king such as Pasenadi of Kosala or Ajātasattu of Magadha, son of the princess of Videha.Would they have the power in their own realm to execute those who have incurred execution, fine those who have incurred fines, or banish those who have incurred banishment?”Would they have the power in their own realm to execute those who have incurred execution, fine those who have incurred fines, or banish those who have incurred banishment?”

“An anointed king would have such power, worthy Gotama.“An anointed king would have such power, worthy Gotama.Even federations such as theEven federations such as theVajjis and MallasVajjis and Mallas

have such power in their own realm.have such power in their own realm.So of course an anointed king such as Pasenadi or AjātasattuSo of course an anointed king such as Pasenadi or Ajātasattuwould wield such power, as is their right.”would wield such power, as is their right.”

“What do you think, Aggivessana?“What do you think, Aggivessana?When you say,When you say,‘Form is my self,’ do you have power over that form to say:‘Form is my self,’ do you have power over that form to say:

‘May my form be like this! May it not be like that’?”‘May my form be like this! May it not be like that’?”When he said this, Saccaka kept silent.When he said this, Saccaka kept silent.The Buddha asked the question a second time,The Buddha asked the question a second time,

but Saccaka still kept silent.but Saccaka still kept silent.So the Buddha said to Saccaka,So the Buddha said to Saccaka,“Answer now, Aggivessana. Now is not the time for silence.“Answer now, Aggivessana. Now is not the time for silence.

If someone fails to answer a legitimate question when asked three times by the Buddha, their head explodes into seven pieces there and then.”If someone fails to answer a legitimate question when asked three times by the Buddha, their head explodes into seven pieces there and then.”Now at that time the spirit Vajirapāṇī, taking up a burning iron thunderbolt, blazing and glowing, stood in the air above Saccaka, thinking,Now at that time the spirit Vajirapāṇī, taking up a burning iron thunderbolt, blazing and glowing, stood in the air above Saccaka, thinking,“If this Saccaka doesn’t answer when asked a third time, I’ll blow his head into seven pieces there and then!”“If this Saccaka doesn’t answer when asked a third time, I’ll blow his head into seven pieces there and then!”

And both the Buddha and Saccaka could see Vajirapāṇī.And both the Buddha and Saccaka could see Vajirapāṇī.Saccaka was terrified, shocked, and awestruck. Looking to the Buddha for shelter, asylum, and refuge, he said,Saccaka was terrified, shocked, and awestruck. Looking to the Buddha for shelter, asylum, and refuge, he said,“Ask me, worthy Gotama. I will answer.”“Ask me, worthy Gotama. I will answer.”

“What do you think, Aggivessana?“What do you think, Aggivessana?When you say,When you say,‘Form is my self,’ do you have power over that form to say:‘Form is my self,’ do you have power over that form to say:

‘May my form be like this! May it not be like that’?”‘May my form be like this! May it not be like that’?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“Think about it, Aggivessana!“Think about it, Aggivessana!

You should think before answering.You should think before answering.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.What do you think, Aggivessana?What do you think, Aggivessana?

When you say,When you say,‘Feeling is my self,’ do you have power over that feeling to say:‘Feeling is my self,’ do you have power over that feeling to say:‘May my feeling be like this! May it not be like that’?”‘May my feeling be like this! May it not be like that’?”

“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“Think about it, Aggivessana!“Think about it, Aggivessana!You should think before answering.You should think before answering.

What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.What do you think, Aggivessana?What do you think, Aggivessana?When you say,When you say,

‘Perception is my self,’ do you have power over that perception to say:‘Perception is my self,’ do you have power over that perception to say:‘May my perception be like this! May it not be like that’?”‘May my perception be like this! May it not be like that’?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Think about it, Aggivessana!“Think about it, Aggivessana!You should think before answering.You should think before answering.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.What you said before and what you said after don’t match up.

What do you think, Aggivessana?What do you think, Aggivessana?When you say,When you say,‘Choices are my self,’ do you have power over those choices to say:‘Choices are my self,’ do you have power over those choices to say:

‘May my choices be like this! May they not be like that’?”‘May my choices be like this! May they not be like that’?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“Think about it, Aggivessana!“Think about it, Aggivessana!

You should think before answering.You should think before answering.