长部第 9 经（Sujato 英译）第 3 阅读页 · With Poṭṭhapāda · 3/4

Asked this, they say, ‘No.’Asked this, they say, ‘No.’I say to them,I say to them,‘But have you ever heard the voice of the deities reborn in an absolutely happy world saying,‘But have you ever heard the voice of the deities reborn in an absolutely happy world saying,

“Practice well, good fellows, practice directly so as to realize an absolutely happy world.“Practice well, good fellows, practice directly so as to realize an absolutely happy world.For this is how we practiced, and we were reborn in an absolutely happy world”?’For this is how we practiced, and we were reborn in an absolutely happy world”?’Asked this, they say, ‘No.’Asked this, they say, ‘No.’

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?This being so, doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“Suppose, Poṭṭhapāda, a man were to say:“Suppose, Poṭṭhapāda, a man were to say:‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’They’d say to him,They’d say to him,

‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’They’d say to him,They’d say to him,

‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’They’d say to him,They’d say to him,

‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have that doctrine and view …“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have that doctrine and view …

Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse.“Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse.

They’d say to him,They’d say to him,My friend, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’My friend, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

They’d say to him,They’d say to him,‘My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’‘My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’

What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have those various doctrines and views …“In the same way, the ascetics and brahmins who have those various doctrines and views …Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”Doesn’t what they say turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”

2.2. Three Kinds of Incarnation2.2. Three Kinds of Incarnation

“Poṭṭhapāda, there are these three kinds of incarnation:“Poṭṭhapāda, there are these three kinds of incarnation:a solid incarnation, a mind-made incarnation, and a formless incarnation.a solid incarnation, a mind-made incarnation, and a formless incarnation.And what is a solid incarnation?And what is a solid incarnation?

It is formed, made up of the four principal states, and consumes edible food.It is formed, made up of the four principal states, and consumes edible food.What is a mind-made incarnation?What is a mind-made incarnation?It is formed, mind-made, whole in its major and minor limbs, not deficient in any faculty.It is formed, mind-made, whole in its major and minor limbs, not deficient in any faculty.

What is a formless incarnation?What is a formless incarnation?It is formless, made of perception.It is formless, made of perception.I teach the Dhamma for the giving up of reincarnation in these three kinds of incarnation.I teach the Dhamma for the giving up of reincarnation in these three kinds of incarnation.

‘When you practice accordingly, corrupting qualities will be given up in you and cleansing qualities will grow. You’ll enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with your own insight in this very life.’‘When you practice accordingly, corrupting qualities will be given up in you and cleansing qualities will grow. You’ll enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with your own insight in this very life.’Poṭṭhapāda, you might think:Poṭṭhapāda, you might think:‘Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. But such a life is suffering.’‘Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. But such a life is suffering.’

But you should not see it like this.But you should not see it like this.Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. And there will be only joy and happiness, tranquility, mindfulness and awareness. Such a life is blissful.Corrupting qualities will be given up and cleansing qualities will grow. One will enter and remain in the fullness and abundance of wisdom, having realized it with one’s own insight in this very life. And there will be only joy and happiness, tranquility, mindfulness and awareness. Such a life is blissful.Poṭṭhapāda, if others should ask us,Poṭṭhapāda, if others should ask us,

‘But reverends, what is that solid incarnation for the giving up of which you teach?’ We’d answer like this,‘But reverends, what is that solid incarnation for the giving up of which you teach?’ We’d answer like this,‘This is that solid incarnation.’‘This is that solid incarnation.’If others should ask us,If others should ask us,

‘But reverends, what is that mind-made incarnation?’ We’d answer like this,‘But reverends, what is that mind-made incarnation?’ We’d answer like this,‘This is that mind-made incarnation.’‘This is that mind-made incarnation.’If others should ask us,If others should ask us,

‘But reverends, what is that formless incarnation?’ We’d answer like this,‘But reverends, what is that formless incarnation?’ We’d answer like this,‘This is that formless incarnation.’‘This is that formless incarnation.’What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?

This being so, doesn’t that statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t that statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Suppose a man were to build a ladder for climbing up to a stilt longhouse right underneath that longhouse.“Suppose a man were to build a ladder for climbing up to a stilt longhouse right underneath that longhouse.

They’d say to him,They’d say to him,‘My man, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’‘My man, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’He’d say,He’d say,

‘This is that stilt longhouse for which I’m building a ladder, right underneath it.’‘This is that stilt longhouse for which I’m building a ladder, right underneath it.’What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda?This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have a demonstrable basis?”

“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”“Clearly that’s the case, sir.”When the Buddha had spoken, Citta Hatthisāriputta said,When the Buddha had spoken, Citta Hatthisāriputta said,“Sir, when reincarnated in a solid incarnation, are the mind-made and formless incarnations fictitious,“Sir, when reincarnated in a solid incarnation, are the mind-made and formless incarnations fictitious,

and only the solid incarnation real?and only the solid incarnation real?When reincarnated in a mind-made incarnation, are the solid and formless incarnations fictitious,When reincarnated in a mind-made incarnation, are the solid and formless incarnations fictitious,and only the mind-made incarnation real?and only the mind-made incarnation real?

When reincarnated in a formless incarnation, are the solid and mind-made incarnations fictitious,When reincarnated in a formless incarnation, are the solid and mind-made incarnations fictitious,and only the formless incarnation real?”and only the formless incarnation real?”“When reincarnated in a solid incarnation, it’s not referred to as a mind-made or formless incarnation,“When reincarnated in a solid incarnation, it’s not referred to as a mind-made or formless incarnation,

only as a solid incarnation.only as a solid incarnation.When reincarnated in a mind-made incarnation, it’s not referred to as a solid or formless incarnation,When reincarnated in a mind-made incarnation, it’s not referred to as a solid or formless incarnation,only as a mind-made incarnation.only as a mind-made incarnation.

When reincarnated in a formless incarnation, it’s not referred to as a solid or mind-made incarnation,When reincarnated in a formless incarnation, it’s not referred to as a solid or mind-made incarnation,only as a formless incarnation.only as a formless incarnation.Citta, suppose they were to ask you,Citta, suppose they were to ask you,

‘Did you exist in the past?‘Did you exist in the past?Will you exist in the future?Will you exist in the future?Do you exist now?’Do you exist now?’

How would you answer?”How would you answer?”“Sir, if they were to ask me this,“Sir, if they were to ask me this,I’d answer like this,I’d answer like this,

‘I did exist in the past.‘I did exist in the past.I will exist in the future.I will exist in the future.I do exist now.’I do exist now.’

That’s how I’d answer.”That’s how I’d answer.”“But Citta, suppose they were to ask you,“But Citta, suppose they were to ask you,‘Is the reincarnation you had in the past your only real one, and those of the future and present fictitious?‘Is the reincarnation you had in the past your only real one, and those of the future and present fictitious?

Is the reincarnation you will have in the future your only real one, and those of the past and present fictitious?Is the reincarnation you will have in the future your only real one, and those of the past and present fictitious?Is the reincarnation you have now your only real one, and those of the past and future fictitious?’Is the reincarnation you have now your only real one, and those of the past and future fictitious?’How would you answer?”How would you answer?”

“Sir, if they were to ask me this,“Sir, if they were to ask me this,I’d answer like this,I’d answer like this,‘The reincarnation I had in the past was real at that time, and those of the future and present fictitious.‘The reincarnation I had in the past was real at that time, and those of the future and present fictitious.

The reincarnation I will have in the future will be real at the time, and those of the past and present fictitious.The reincarnation I will have in the future will be real at the time, and those of the past and present fictitious.The reincarnation I have now is real at this time, and those of the past and future fictitious.’The reincarnation I have now is real at this time, and those of the past and future fictitious.’That’s how I’d answer.”That’s how I’d answer.”

“In the same way, while in any one of the three reincarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.“In the same way, while in any one of the three reincarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.From a cow comes milk, from milk comes curds, from curds come butter, from butter comes ghee, and from ghee comes cream of ghee. And the cream of ghee is said to be the best of these.From a cow comes milk, from milk comes curds, from curds come butter, from butter comes ghee, and from ghee comes cream of ghee. And the cream of ghee is said to be the best of these.While it’s milk, it’s not referred to as curds, butter, ghee, or cream of ghee.While it’s milk, it’s not referred to as curds, butter, ghee, or cream of ghee.

It’s only referred to as milk.It’s only referred to as milk.While it’s curdWhile it’s curdor butteror butter

or gheeor gheeor cream of ghee, it’s not referred to as anything else,or cream of ghee, it’s not referred to as anything else,only under its own name.only under its own name.

In the same way, while in any one of the three incarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.In the same way, while in any one of the three incarnations, it’s not referred to as the other two, only under its own name.These are the world’s common usages, definitions, expressions, and descriptions, which the Realized One uses to communicate without getting stuck on them.”These are the world’s common usages, definitions, expressions, and descriptions, which the Realized One uses to communicate without getting stuck on them.”