长部第 13 经（Sujato 英译）第 1 阅读页 · Experts in the Three Vedas · 1/3

Long Discourses 13Long Discourses 13Experts in the Three VedasExperts in the Three Vedas

So I have heard.So I have heard.At one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of five hundred mendicants when he arrived at a village of the Kosalan brahmins named Manasākaṭa.At one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of five hundred mendicants when he arrived at a village of the Kosalan brahmins named Manasākaṭa.He stayed in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravatī River to the north of Manasākaṭa.He stayed in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravatī River to the north of Manasākaṭa.

Now at that time several very well-known well-to-do brahmins were residing in Manasākaṭa. They includedNow at that time several very well-known well-to-do brahmins were residing in Manasākaṭa. They includedthe brahmins Caṅkī, Tārukkha, Pokkharasāti, Jānussoṇi, Todeyya, and others.the brahmins Caṅkī, Tārukkha, Pokkharasāti, Jānussoṇi, Todeyya, and others.Then as the students Vāseṭṭha and Bhāradvāja were going for a walk they began a discussion regarding what is the path and what is not the path.Then as the students Vāseṭṭha and Bhāradvāja were going for a walk they began a discussion regarding what is the path and what is not the path.

Vāseṭṭha said this:Vāseṭṭha said this:“This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Pokkharasāti.”“This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Pokkharasāti.”Bhāradvāja said this:Bhāradvāja said this:

“This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Tārukkha.”“This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity; namely, that explained by the brahmin Tārukkha.”But neither was able to persuade the other.But neither was able to persuade the other.So Vāseṭṭha said to Bhāradvāja,So Vāseṭṭha said to Bhāradvāja,

“Bhāradvāja, the ascetic Gotama—a Sakyan, gone forth from a Sakyan family—is staying in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravatī River to the north of Manasākaṭa.“Bhāradvāja, the ascetic Gotama—a Sakyan, gone forth from a Sakyan family—is staying in a mango grove on a bank of the Aciravatī River to the north of Manasākaṭa.He has this good reputation:He has this good reputation:‘That Blessed One is perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those fit for training, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed.’‘That Blessed One is perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those fit for training, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed.’

Come, let’s go to see him and ask him about this matter.Come, let’s go to see him and ask him about this matter.As he answers, so we’ll remember it.”As he answers, so we’ll remember it.”“Yes, worthy sir,” replied Bhāradvāja.“Yes, worthy sir,” replied Bhāradvāja.

1. What is the Path and What is Not the Path1. What is the Path and What is Not the Path

So they went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.So they went to the Buddha and exchanged greetings with him.When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and Vāseṭṭha told him of their conversation, adding:When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and Vāseṭṭha told him of their conversation, adding:“In this matter we have a dispute, a disagreement, a difference of opinion.”“In this matter we have a dispute, a disagreement, a difference of opinion.”

“So, Vāseṭṭha, it seems that you say that“So, Vāseṭṭha, it seems that you say thatthe straight path is that explained by Pokkharasāti,the straight path is that explained by Pokkharasāti,while Bhāradvāja says thatwhile Bhāradvāja says that

the straight path is that explained by Tārukkha.the straight path is that explained by Tārukkha.But what exactly is your disagreement about?”But what exactly is your disagreement about?”“About what is the path and what is not the path, worthy Gotama.“About what is the path and what is not the path, worthy Gotama.

Even though brahmins describe different paths—the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittirīya brahmins, the Chāndogya brahmins, the Cāndrāyaṇa brahmins, and the Bahvṛca brahmins—all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.Even though brahmins describe different paths—the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittirīya brahmins, the Chāndogya brahmins, the Cāndrāyaṇa brahmins, and the Bahvṛca brahmins—all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.It’s like a village or town that has many different roads nearby, yet all of them meet at that village.It’s like a village or town that has many different roads nearby, yet all of them meet at that village.In the same way, even though brahmins describe different paths—the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittirīya brahmins, the Chāndogya brahmins, the Cāndrāyaṇa brahmins, and the Bahvṛca brahmins—all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.”In the same way, even though brahmins describe different paths—the Adhvaryu brahmins, the Taittirīya brahmins, the Chāndogya brahmins, the Cāndrāyaṇa brahmins, and the Bahvṛca brahmins—all of them still lead someone who practices them to the company of Divinity.”

2. Questioning Vāseṭṭha2. Questioning Vāseṭṭha

“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”“I do, worthy Gotama.”“I do, worthy Gotama.”“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”

“I do, worthy Gotama.”“I do, worthy Gotama.”“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”“Do you say, ‘they lead someone’, Vāseṭṭha?”“I do, worthy Gotama.”“I do, worthy Gotama.”

“Well, of the brahmins who are proficient in the three Vedas, Vāseṭṭha, is there even a single one who has seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“Well, of the brahmins who are proficient in the three Vedas, Vāseṭṭha, is there even a single one who has seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“Well, has even a single one of their tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“Well, has even a single one of their tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”

“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“Well, has even a single one of their tutors’ tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“Well, has even a single one of their tutors’ tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”

“Well, has anyone back to the seventh generation of tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“Well, has anyone back to the seventh generation of tutors seen the Divinity with their own eyes?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“Well, what of the ancient seers of the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas, namely Aṭṭhaka, Vāmaka, Vāmadeva, Vessāmitta, Yamadaggi, Aṅgīrasa, Bhāradvāja, Vāseṭṭha, Kassapa, and Bhagu? They were the authors and propagators of the hymns. Their hymnal was sung and propagated and compiled in ancient times; and these days, brahmins continue to sing and chant it, chanting what was chanted and teaching what was taught.“Well, what of the ancient seers of the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas, namely Aṭṭhaka, Vāmaka, Vāmadeva, Vessāmitta, Yamadaggi, Aṅgīrasa, Bhāradvāja, Vāseṭṭha, Kassapa, and Bhagu? They were the authors and propagators of the hymns. Their hymnal was sung and propagated and compiled in ancient times; and these days, brahmins continue to sing and chant it, chanting what was chanted and teaching what was taught.

Did they say:Did they say:‘We know and see where the Divinity is or what way he lies’?”‘We know and see where the Divinity is or what way he lies’?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”

“So it seems that none of those brahmins have seen the Divinity with their own eyes,“So it seems that none of those brahmins have seen the Divinity with their own eyes,and not even the ancient seersand not even the ancient seersclaimed to know where he is.claimed to know where he is.

Yet the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas say:Yet the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas say:‘We teach the path to the company of that which we neither know nor see.‘We teach the path to the company of that which we neither know nor see.This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity.’This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of Divinity.’

What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?This being so, doesn’t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”

“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.Suppose there was a queue of blind men, each holding the one in front: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see.Suppose there was a queue of blind men, each holding the one in front: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see.In the same way, it seems to me that the brahmins’ statement turns out to be comparable to a queue of blind men: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see.In the same way, it seems to me that the brahmins’ statement turns out to be comparable to a queue of blind men: the first one does not see, the middle one does not see, and the last one does not see.

Their statement turns out to be a joke—mere words, vacuous and hollow.Their statement turns out to be a joke—mere words, vacuous and hollow.What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?Do the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon just as other folk do? And do they supplicate and entreat them, following their course from where they rise to where they set with cupped palms held in worship?”Do the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon just as other folk do? And do they supplicate and entreat them, following their course from where they rise to where they set with cupped palms held in worship?”

“Yes, worthy Gotama.”“Yes, worthy Gotama.”“What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?“What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?Though this is so, are the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon, saying:Though this is so, are the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon, saying:

‘This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of the sun and moon’?”‘This is the only straight path, the direct route that delivers one who applies it to the company of the sun and moon’?”“No, worthy Gotama.”“No, worthy Gotama.”“So it seems that even though the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon, they are not able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon.“So it seems that even though the brahmins proficient in the three Vedas see the sun and moon, they are not able to teach the path to the company of the sun and moon.

But it seems that even though they have not seen the Divinity with their own eyes,But it seems that even though they have not seen the Divinity with their own eyes,they still claimthey still claimto teach the path to the company of that which they neither know nor see.to teach the path to the company of that which they neither know nor see.

What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?This being so, doesn’t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t their statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”

“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.

2.1. The Simile of the Finest Lady in the Land2.1. The Simile of the Finest Lady in the Land

Suppose a man were to say,Suppose a man were to say,‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her that I desire!’They’d say to him,They’d say to him,

‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whethershe’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

They’d say to him,They’d say to him,‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

They’d say to him,They’d say to him,‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’

What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”

“In the same way,“In the same way,doesn’t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”doesn’t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”

“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.

2.2. The Simile of the Ladder2.2. The Simile of the Ladder

Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse.Suppose a man was to build a ladder at the crossroads for climbing up to a stilt longhouse.They’d say to him,They’d say to him,‘My man, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’‘My man, that stilt longhouse for which you’re building a ladder—do you know whether it’s to the north, south, east, or west? Or whether it’s tall or short or medium?’

Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’They’d say to him,They’d say to him,‘My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’‘My man, are you building a ladder for a longhouse that you’ve never even known or seen?’

Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?What do you think, Vāseṭṭha?This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“In the same way,“In the same way,doesn’t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”doesn’t the statement of those brahmins turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.“Good, Vāseṭṭha. For it is impossible that they should teach the path to that which they neither know nor see.

2.3. The Simile of the Aciravatī River2.3. The Simile of the Aciravatī River

Suppose the Aciravatī River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it.Suppose the Aciravatī River was full to the brim so a crow could drink from it.Then along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore.Then along comes a person who wants to cross over to the far shore.Standing on the near shore, they’d call out to the far shore,Standing on the near shore, they’d call out to the far shore,

‘Come here, far shore! Come here, far shore!’‘Come here, far shore! Come here, far shore!’